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Post by guzlomi on Jun 23, 2017 22:23:14 GMT
As long as Mars or the Moon are very cold, maybe the colony base on Earth should be located and tested in Antartic.
Or maybe in Greenland, north of Canada, Alaska or Scandinavia...
Extreme conditions would make the whole test and experiment more realistic, but costs and logistics would be higher and more difficult.
What do you think?
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Post by Mike on Jun 24, 2017 8:13:00 GMT
Apart from cold (and not cold enough even in Antarctic), I don't see much similarities. Most importantly surface would be water ice, which is extremelly different from conditions of possible Colony Sites. We need something like rock desert, without any plants. I would say it also have to have limited sun access, to simulate real distance from the sun. So maybe inside a canyon?
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 19:18:20 GMT
Actually there is no snow on Mars, so I´d excluded all those localities, the cold desserts of south america could work better...
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Hive Apocrita
Space Cadet
A Singer is someone who tries to be Good.
Posts: 12
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Post by Hive Apocrita on Jun 24, 2017 19:59:40 GMT
Do we really need to design our own infrastructure for this? Can't we just buy like, Bigalow inflatables at first or something? We know they work, we don't need to test them in the arctic somewhere, Bigalow already tested them in orbit, there's one on the ISS right now.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 20:25:15 GMT
No problem with Bigelow´s, we talking about outside conditions - we need dry, very cold and deserted place. Any idea?
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Hive Apocrita
Space Cadet
A Singer is someone who tries to be Good.
Posts: 12
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Post by Hive Apocrita on Jun 24, 2017 20:27:10 GMT
Low Earth Orbit.
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Post by Mike on Jun 25, 2017 16:38:49 GMT
No problem with Bigelow´s, we talking about outside conditions - we need dry, very cold and deserted place. Any idea? But are there any benefits for being cold outside? As I said earlier, there will be not cold enough anyway, and at any proposed future Colony locations, colonists can't leave without Space Suit, without dying immediately. So, if there will be cold outside: 1. We need actual heating in Colony. I have no idea how it is done in ISS, but as I understand designing heating system, and actual composition of walls for future Colony is quite low on our list of priorities. 2. We need heated "Space" Suits. Now that is quite advanced technology, possibly new NASA project can be used, but in worst case, Colony will be established at Mars, which have gravity of 0.376 g. That means, when Colonists during tests would use REAL Space Suits, they will be carrying 3 times too much weight when traveling outside. Hardly useful experiment. To make simple calculation: If average Colonist will be small, and weight 50 kg, and Space Suit would be heavy at 100 kg, whole Colonist would weight 150 kg, but on Mars, that weight would be only 150*0.376=56.4, that means our Testing Suit, should only weight 6.4 kg, to simulate real Mars encumbrance.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Post by petrv on Jun 26, 2017 10:22:16 GMT
That´s valid note. So real suits should be tested under cold water (avg. -63C, min.-87C) as well as warm one (for martian sunny days up to +20C)
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Post by bigred on Jun 27, 2017 12:14:53 GMT
As I am again relocating to asia I will be looking for marginal desert land in the remote north western areas of china for some land reclamation projects for the family companies. If I can lease some you would be welcome to utilise them. I know it seems a long way away however it isnt really and the environment would be perfect. It is barren, cold, hot and hostile to life. If I am utilising it for soil and desert reclamation then I know they wont mind using it for such a knowledge seeking project. Also it is an environment and society which most people won't be familiar with so 2 things are an advantage. 1) unfamiliarity will make it feel more remote and more like being stranded in a hostile environment. 2) everybody will get to see and know a different part of the world and become familiar with different peoples, learning more social skills and building ties - this can only be good for building a project like this.
Anyway I'll get the land first then let everyone know about it. You guys let me know if you would like to utilise it.
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Post by Mike on Jun 27, 2017 12:25:16 GMT
As I am again relocating to asia I will be looking for marginal desert land in the remote north western areas of china for some land reclamation projects for the family companies. If I can lease some you would be welcome to utilise them. I know it seems a long way away however it isnt really and the environment would be perfect. It is barren, cold, hot and hostile to life. If I am utilising it for soil and desert reclamation then I know they wont mind using it for such a knowledge seeking project. Also it is an environment and society which most people won't be familiar with so 2 things are an advantage. 1) unfamiliarity will make it feel more remote and more like being stranded in a hostile environment. 2) everybody will get to see and know a different part of the world and become familiar with different peoples, learning more social skills and building ties - this can only be good for building a project like this. Anyway I'll get the land first then let everyone know about it. You guys let me know if you would like to utilise it. Chinese are planning to establish Moon Base in near future. With good contacts in "The Party", they would probably give us this land for free, and even fund whole project
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Hive Apocrita
Space Cadet
A Singer is someone who tries to be Good.
Posts: 12
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Post by Hive Apocrita on Jun 27, 2017 12:53:18 GMT
As a member of the LGBT community, we'd personally prefer not be that dependent upon a country with a rather poor human rights record in terms of LGBT issues.
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Post by phicksur on Jun 27, 2017 12:56:28 GMT
I am pretty sure my wife would have a shitfit if I wanted to move to China. She moved here from Croatia not but 10 years ago herself.
I would have to help from here (Florida, USA).
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Post by bigred on Jun 27, 2017 22:40:43 GMT
sorry that post went again for some reason :-(
No reason for anyone to move to the area of the projects. It is only a project so people go there when needed.
Anyway when I have leased the land it will be available to you if you can use it
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Post by bigred on Jun 27, 2017 22:47:12 GMT
Hi Hive. Not sure if you've ever been to other countries but honestly you really have to stop putting your trust in what one country's political propoganda says about another country. There are less "freedoms" in my country than there are in china. Our own countries have committed and still commit vast human atrocities in exactly the same scenarios as every other country on earth has. Mainly because it is not the country that does it but certain humans. I'm sure even in your own LGBT home community you can find people who feel they are superior and above everyone else.
China is about the most capitalist nation I have ever worked in and it is very very easy to get things done such as the experiments we propose. The red tape does not extend to making sure somebody doesnt get something just because "i'm an official and I can stop them" like it does in Australia, America, Britain and Russia.
Actually.... I challenge you to come with me to china and I will introduce you to a much much bigger LGBT community than you have ever imagined :-) There are 2 cities one of 44 million people and another of 36 million people. the first is called the "lesbian city" by everyone in china. The other is called the "gay capital" by even the govt of china. No one stops people trying to live their lives in any many they choose unless those people try to proselytise their view onto others forcefully. In every country it is against the law to do that but unfortunately we all still do it. For the record I don't agree with the term "identify with ..." or "LGBT community", as we are just people who live our lives the way we want, however if you wish to catagories us, my partner and I are from that community, "identify" with bi and have an extremely (what others would call) well discussed and open relationship....and my partner is a chinese national currently living in china.
Anyway enough of this as it is not the point of this forum and not conducive to us all working together to realise dreams. As I said the offer is there and it may help in that the project wont need to get through red tape for permits etc.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Post by petrv on Jun 27, 2017 23:09:57 GMT
We have no problem with LGBT, but we have a problem with real content currently (if bigred will be quick with land acquizition)- we still have no project to work on....
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Post by bigred on Jun 28, 2017 10:13:35 GMT
petrv - actually there is a project here. We just need to work out details. Write down the main areas that you feel need attention to implement what guzlomi has presented as the idea. Then break them down into further detail. This will lead you to areas that need addressing and then the fine details can be worked out and people can take on responsibility for those details as they feel able. there are a lot of areas to work on for a simulated space mission as guz has described. It's all in getting in and "doing" something. Then a the detail will likely overwhelm us as the project presents itself
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