petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Post by petrv on Jun 26, 2017 0:06:48 GMT
Hi all, we had interesting discussion separately on another forum and I think there could be realistic approach to create mining activity on Moon´s surface together with "filing" station on Moon´s orbit.
As many private and national agencies/corporations thinking and planning of resource mining from asteroids, comets, moons and other celestial bodies of solar system, they will for sure need many resources for such activities. So why not to start participate on this? There are already almost all necessary technologies ready today.
We can use EMG for sending cargo to the Monn´s orbit, it´s already teoretically proven, so we need 1) habitation (3Dprinting from lunar regolith along with inflatable Bigelows) 2) mining 3) sustainable food production 4) fuel processing (from mined materials - O2 and H3) 5) water processing (besides the recyclation) 6) orbital logistics (EMG) - all those technologies are developed already..
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Post by Mike on Jun 26, 2017 9:12:20 GMT
Hi all, we had interesting discussion separately on another forum and I think there could be realistic approach to create mining activity on Moon´s surface together with "filing" station on Moon´s orbit.
As many private and national agencies/corporations thinking and planning of resource mining from asteroids, comets, moons and other celestial bodies of solar system, they will for sure need many resources for such activities. So why not to start participate on this? There are already almost all necessary technologies ready today. Yup, commercial endeavor to deliver construction material, and fuel onto Earth Orbit. Although, considering current technologies: What about Cosmic Radiation? Are such thin structures protect against it? Is there easily available source of Oxygen to mine from Moon surface? I would say that one will be extensive, with Delivering Shuttles, Fuel Tanks, and Processing Plants (it is easier to produce electronics in ZERO G). So, although Mining Base on Moon will be mostly for extracting, and sending material, main effort seems to be needed on Orbit (possibly Moon one, not Earth). So not exactly Space Colony on Moon per se
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Post by petrv on Jun 26, 2017 10:10:17 GMT
No, we´d need thick layer of pure regolith (abt. 8 meters) - so we need to develop robotic lunar dozer first - it can become to be first commodity (all lunar settlements will need it). I expect the 3Dprinted structures+inflatables will be half burried and then covered with such layer - seems most economic solution NOW.
yes, but again due the regolith varying composition the mapping and localization of "suitable" localities must be done first.
Except small service&rescue habitat I expect three main parts on Moon surface (raw material extraction + Fuel Production Plant + EMG launcher) - mostly robotized and then Moon orbital unit for manipulation, re-shuttling and ofc container circulation back to plant. The containers have to be unified, different inner structures for different cargo (water is expected to be sent frozen).
The MOB (Moon Orbital Base ) could be big habitat with artifical G (rotation), as there must be:
I´m not sure about the food production but IMO it should be settled on MOB (several aspects - O2 production, CO2 absorbtion, psychological reasons...), but why not to double it? I mean algaes + worms/insects on surface and plants on MOB could work...
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Hive Apocrita
Space Cadet
A Singer is someone who tries to be Good.
Posts: 12
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Post by Hive Apocrita on Jun 26, 2017 11:41:57 GMT
You could build a space elevator on the moon out of steel cables. Also, you could make a rotovator swing right down into an instantaneous stationary position right at the surface, due to the lack of a lunar atmosphere. Seems pretty viable, but we'd prefer to focus on actual space.
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Post by phicksur on Jun 26, 2017 12:04:51 GMT
So, I have been giving thought to how to replicate 1G gravity on the moon and I have an idea which should work, although I am not sure how 'safe' it would be.
Utilizing the idea of centrifugal force, something akin to a carnival ride would be set up as living quarters on the moon. It spins, thereby providing centrifugal force to increase the relative gravity from what the moon normally has (.167G). It would hinge, so that the habitat could be 'spun down' in the event some catastrophic event occurs. The possibility of even 'spinning up' would be possible to simulate gravity of greater than 1G, but that would only increase the general safety issues.
Needless to say, only the central hub could be used to ferry folks around, as trying to get out of one of the spinning sides would be like trying to leave a ferris wheel without it stopping first. Theoretically this sort of thing should work.
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Post by Mike on Jun 26, 2017 13:16:47 GMT
No, we´d need thick layer of pure regolith (abt. 8 meters) - so we need to develop robotic lunar dozer first - it can become to be first commodity (all lunar settlements will need it). I expect the 3Dprinted structures+inflatables will be half burried and then covered with such layer - seems most economic solution NOW.
I'm not sure inflatables would support mass of 8 meters of regolith. But I've read in article about Enceladus, that IIRC half meter of water already stops Cosmic Radiation. So maybe we should just cover every building with deep aquariums? (Or even ice) Although I am not sure how safe this water would be for reusing. You could build a space elevator on the moon out of steel cables. Also, you could make a rotovator swing right down into an instantaneous stationary position right at the surface, due to the lack of a lunar atmosphere. Seems pretty viable, but we'd prefer to focus on actual space. The Moon is only nearby body, where we can, in theory, construct Space Elevator, but have you considered length of such cable? I remember, I've made a calculation, and transporting anything up to Hanging Stations would take days. Considering Escape Velocity of Moon, that wouldn't be very economical. So, I have been giving thought to how to replicate 1G gravity on the moon and I have an idea which should work, although I am not sure how 'safe' it would be. Utilizing the idea of centrifugal force, something akin to a carnival ride would be set up as living quarters on the moon. It spins, thereby providing centrifugal force to increase the relative gravity from what the moon normally has (.167G). It would hinge, so that the habitat could be 'spun down' in the event some catastrophic event occurs. The possibility of even 'spinning up' would be possible to simulate gravity of greater than 1G, but that would only increase the general safety issues. Needless to say, only the central hub could be used to ferry folks around, as trying to get out of one of the spinning sides would be like trying to leave a ferris wheel without it stopping first. Theoretically this sort of thing should work. Quite complicated, but I think that wouldn't be necessary. With fuel production on site, Colonists shouldn't spend on Moon surface more, than few weeks. Astronauts on ISS have lived quite safely for over a year in ZERO G. As long as this will be only Mining Station there is no need for permanent stay on Moon surface.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Post by petrv on Jun 26, 2017 21:26:30 GMT
Inflatable itself probably not, so I think there must be some 3Dp struts inside (like umbrella´s support struts) and maybe some sort of hardener on the "roof" part. Ice probably don´t need to be so thick, but I think water will be a bit "precious" to be used as building material - it should be also covered by some kind of thermal insulation - maybe some sintered regolith layers coud serve better..?
Space Elevator IMO there is no need for it - too expensive and probably also dangerous for Moon orbit traffic (regarding the orbiting containers, shooted by EMG).
centrifugal force on Moon´s surface
I don´t think we´d need it - the crew will not stay on surface for so long - just a few days/weeks for repairs, maintenance and new installations, it´s easier to stay on MOB with full artifical gravity (also there is to be SpacePort for evacuation thus better safeness in case of accident).
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Post by bigred on Jun 27, 2017 1:40:57 GMT
phicksur - I looked at that carnival ride thing some time ago and recently had another night thinking about it. It could work but would need some interesting engineering to be able to get inside it when it is running. I thought about laying it on its side as it is going to be at least 225m in diameter. then finding some way of creating a capsule that you ride into it which runs around the top or inside of the habitat (the top is the side and the inside is the roof when gravity is applied). The capsule would have to catch up with the speed then enter through a doorway that twisted around like a roller coaster to make sure it oriented towards up and down. the difficulty of course is that the moon does have gravity so there will always be a 1.6m/s gravitational pull towards the surface of the moon. so even if it is vertical there is a difference between the top and the bottom. perhaps there is some way to do it with the diameter on an incline that allows little or no difference when it is at the top and bottom of the rotation.
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