Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Moon
Jun 22, 2017 18:10:49 GMT
Post by Mike on Jun 22, 2017 18:10:49 GMT
Lets not get too ambitious at the beginning. With Moon Base travel time will be insignificant, few days at worst case. Probably too short for damage by Cosmic Radiation, and close enough for emergency help from Earth.
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Moon
Jun 23, 2017 14:25:29 GMT
Post by phicksur on Jun 23, 2017 14:25:29 GMT
The energy required to build a base on the moon is greater than the energy needed to build a space station in orbit around the Earth. You not only have to deal with getting things much farther from the Earth, you also have to worry about landing on the moon and then getting back and forth off the moon when necessary. That is a lot more fuel.
True, you have the potential for access to more resources, but you cannot do things, for example, like set up a spinning area to approximate Earth gravity (at least not easily). As such, it is not really well-built for a living area, more like a mining base.
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Moon
Jun 23, 2017 19:41:57 GMT
Post by Mike on Jun 23, 2017 19:41:57 GMT
Indeed, but if you need simple construction material on orbit, it would be cheaper to get it from Moon, than from Earth. So yes, the Mining Base, or maybe even Fuel Production Plant, depending how hard will be extracting Hydrogen there. On Earth Orbit you can, maybe, gather all already orbiting trash. Probably lots of old electronics, and some engines, but not that easy to catch, and collect.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Moon
Jun 24, 2017 13:04:59 GMT
Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 13:04:59 GMT
IMO we´d need both - mining base and FPP on Moon as well as GEO base. The supply containers from Moon can be easily sended to the orbit by EMG then using some tugs to re-routed to the orbital base...
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Moon
Jun 24, 2017 15:09:24 GMT
Post by Mike on Jun 24, 2017 15:09:24 GMT
IMO we´d need both - mining base and FPP on Moon as well as GEO base. The supply containers from Moon can be easily sended to the orbit by EMG then using some tugs to re-routed to the orbital base... Agree, but we can also pull one of asteroids from nearby belt onto Earth Orbit, and build Space Station from its material. It is entirely possible using current technology, and probably doable once those SpaceX refueling tanks will be functioning.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Moon
Jun 24, 2017 18:12:56 GMT
Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 18:12:56 GMT
IMO not, because it´s faaaar way and we have not so many infos about the asteroids composition - I think DSI and Planetary Resources are probably the only corporations able to "mine" something and theirs plans doesn´t count with start earlier than 2025 or later - and you need 2-3 years to get to Belt....then mine and prep and then next 3 years to send raw materials back to GEO/Moon orbit - it gives 7 years for 1 mining season (robotic).
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Moon
Jun 24, 2017 19:25:59 GMT
Post by Mike on Jun 24, 2017 19:25:59 GMT
No really, I was talking about pulling whole asteroid into Earth Orbit. You just need few engines, and fuel. Obviously first is needed some scouting mission, to actually find suitable rock. Time of reaching is based mostly on available fuel. Belt is based at around 2.5 AU, while Mars lies around 1.5 AU, so 3 times as far, as Mars. If Musk says, that he can reach Mars in 30 days, reaching Asteroid Belt would take 3 months with his Rocket.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Moon
Jun 24, 2017 19:44:10 GMT
Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 19:44:10 GMT
I´d be careful with such calculation, as at Mars you can "brake" using the planet mass and orbiting which is not possible at Belt - you have to start braking much earlier, using more fuel so the time will be probably longer then you calculate, but it depends on one concrete asteroid/thus possible trajectory.
And also those 30 days is nice future wish but the reality in the near time will be still different IMHO.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
Posts: 93
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Moon
Jun 24, 2017 19:48:11 GMT
Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 19:48:11 GMT
and regarding of "pulling of asteroid" - I read some calculations on DSI/PR papers and there was clear indication that is much better to mine in Belt and send just "raw" materials back to Earth/orbit. Pulling is extremely expensive on fuel (acceleration + decelleration)and is not so easy to stabilize new orbit here. I´ll try to find those papers...
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Mike
Space Pioneer
Posts: 82
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Moon
Jun 24, 2017 19:58:11 GMT
Post by Mike on Jun 24, 2017 19:58:11 GMT
Ok, 3 months is quite optimistic In best case you don't want to brake at all, because that would expend even more fuel, but I doubt even Ceres have enough gravity to pull spaceship, although travel time under a year should be possible, then few weeks to install engines, probably refuel them from additional mission, and then travelling back, I'm guessing - slower this time.
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