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Post by phicksur on Jun 23, 2017 12:17:53 GMT
One of the things I have been working on is the basic principle of a space station, in terms of what we would need to survive. It occurred to me, however, that the design can be tested here on Earth before going up into space.
Thus, I began considering building the basic layout and design of the station in large oil tankers. They would be sealed, just as the space station is sealed, to prevent any exchange between the inside of the 'station' and the outside 'space' (Earth, in this case). They would be able to shuttle goods and people back and forth, just as they would for a space station, by means of a simple 'airlock' mechanism. To simulate the process of getting things to and from the station, we'd have 'vessels' that people would use to connect to the faux station and transfer goods as if they were in orbit, just with gravity because that's hard to simulate.
This wouldn't just be an experiment, however, it could also be a base of operations for our project. On top of the tanker could be things ranging from launch platforms to recovery to communications setups.
For revenue generation, the tanker could travel around the oceans as "see what life in space would be like under our proposal" the same way that Biosphere is now a tourist attraction and scientific resource center. Licensing out the technology would also provide revenue streams.
Once the technology can be demonstrated to work, it can then be recreated in space.
I call it my ARK project.
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Mike
Space Pioneer
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Post by Mike on Jun 23, 2017 13:04:17 GMT
Ah yes, interesting concept. I see potential issues with vibrations from sea, and engines, which would be no present in space, but indeed tanker is already closed, sealed room. There are lots of things to check in the working for such colony: Oxygen, and water reclamation rate Plant growing under purely artificial lights Modules sealing in case of emergency breach Modules integrity for outside access Adding new modules, and rearranging already existing system (plus we can build actual module, and check which shape would be best for standardization) Waste recycling Energy consumption Actual comfort, and living conditions etc.
In theory, we can simulate any desired gravity in space, just by building wheel, and rotating it for centrifugal force. So with large enough Space Station, there is no need for actual ZERO G.
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Post by phicksur on Jun 23, 2017 14:20:54 GMT
Part of the reason for my design is that it was intended to be a 'wheel' and generate gravity via centrifugal force.
All the factors you have specified (yes, all of them) have already been considered in my design, but what I was wondering was how to demonstrate proof of concept. This was my best idea on how to prove it would work.
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Post by guzlomi on Jun 23, 2017 22:02:32 GMT
Amazing idea. That was what I was thinking about when I spoke about an "experimental" colony on Earth, recreating what life would be on space (excepting gravity). That's what this space project and forum is about! About building and reenactment of a real space colony/base to check and test future space exploration scenarios. Please go on with your ideas in the relevant forum threads.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
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Post by petrv on Jun 23, 2017 23:58:36 GMT
Hmmm, what about to have such tanker (even partly) SINKED? 1)there will be much less costs for "running" + less "crew fee" 2)if sinked in some appropriate location we will exclude those vibrations issues 3)if sinked in some appropriate location the supplying will be much easier
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Mike
Space Pioneer
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Post by Mike on Jun 24, 2017 8:18:26 GMT
I recall that there are some beached old tankers near coast of Africa, or maybe Asian lake. Old submarine also gives good prospect for this (but cramped one). But if it would't be needed to move, actual ground structure would be sufficient.
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Post by guzlomi on Jun 24, 2017 16:59:08 GMT
My initial idea was to develop a land colony/base in an isolated land... But maybe it would be interesting to do it inside a sealed oil tanker or cargo ship. It could be docked or anchored, not necessary all time navigating at sea (expensive!)
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petrv
Space Pioneer
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Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 17:51:35 GMT
My initial idea was to develop a land colony/base in an isolated land... But maybe it would be interesting to do it inside a sealed oil tanker or cargo ship. It could be docked or anchored, not necessary all time navigating at sea (expensive!) But AFAIK there are such "land colonies" already´d been created, some of them for repeated seasons...
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petrv
Space Pioneer
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Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 18:39:02 GMT
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jun 24, 2017 19:07:13 GMT
Yes, there are several such projects, but I don't think any of them takes place in sealed structures (they use Earth atmosphere for breathing, OK I recall there was Russian experiment in sealed tube, but it simulated travel to Mars). And most work done outside of Colony, by Colonists is just simulation. So they are just sitting there, getting bored, and not doing anything useful. As I said previously, more psychological test, than actual simulation.
So, I would say Simulated Colony should: 1. Have, and test Oxygen Reclamation/Production System 2. Have, and test Water Reclamation/Production System 3. Have hydroponic large enough to feed whole Colony 4. Colonists should work to enlarge existing structures - building additional space for more Colonists/more food production
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petrv
Space Pioneer
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Post by petrv on Jun 24, 2017 19:14:07 GMT
Agree, but why to reinvent the wheel again - IMO better way is to cooperate with some/one of those running projects as they already have some usable experience (closed groups psychology etc.)
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Post by phicksur on Jun 26, 2017 12:11:30 GMT
Part of the reason why I had it mobile was because, after testing was completed, it could be used as a revenue source as a travelling museum. Just going around the Pacific ocean once a year would generate tremendous revenue for the project.
During testing, it could be stationary without issue, especially if we park it near a supply source.
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Hive Apocrita
Space Cadet
A Singer is someone who tries to be Good.
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Post by Hive Apocrita on Jun 26, 2017 15:36:04 GMT
Setting a goal of "construct a floating, mobile launch complex, that can support launches for multiple clients" does seem like a pretty good inroad to getting established on Earth as an organisation. If we're in in international waters, have a few thousand people, and run ourselves like a government, then we're really not too different from any currently existing small island nation.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
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Post by petrv on Jun 26, 2017 22:12:20 GMT
in case of floating lauch pad is extremely expensive to get there 1) rocket/launcher, 2)fuel (usually very poisoning - thus I expect some eco movement will prevent us to do it) 3)payload. So I´m not optimistic about launching, but phicksur ´s idea with museum/hotel with "training" capability could generate really significant income.
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Mike
Space Pioneer
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Post by Mike on Jun 27, 2017 12:21:03 GMT
in case of floating lauch pad is extremely expensive to get there 1) rocket/launcher, 2)fuel (usually very poisoning - thus I expect some eco movement will prevent us to do it) 3)payload. So I´m not optimistic about launching, but phicksur ´s idea with museum/hotel with "training" capability could generate really significant income. Meh, I think that those Floating Landing Robotic Ships of SpaceX would be sufficient (maybe something bigger), but yeah, lets not get carried away with scope of initial projects.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
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Post by petrv on Jun 27, 2017 23:16:21 GMT
those barges are good for landing, not for launching...
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Post by phicksur on Jun 28, 2017 12:40:57 GMT
The purpose of the ARKs was to develop, test, and refine the processes needed to live in space, not to get there. They MIGHT be able to pull double-duty as launch and landing platforms (perhaps lease out their topsides to SpaceX for recovery purposes?) but their primary purpose is not that.
Best not to make them try to do too much and end up not doing anything well at all.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jun 28, 2017 19:42:23 GMT
those barges are good for landing, not for launching... Apart for mass of Rocket for launch, I see no problem. It should be actually easier, as Rocket would be stable whole time. All what is needed is launching tower. The purpose of the ARKs was to develop, test, and refine the processes needed to live in space, not to get there. They MIGHT be able to pull double-duty as launch and landing platforms (perhaps lease out their topsides to SpaceX for recovery purposes?) but their primary purpose is not that. Best not to make them try to do too much and end up not doing anything well at all. Agree, also those Rockets could explode (and few of SpaceX already did so), so any human presence on those ships would be risky.
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petrv
Space Pioneer
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Post by petrv on Jun 28, 2017 22:54:20 GMT
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Post by bigred on Jun 29, 2017 12:52:31 GMT
sea platform is a great idea. the company sea launch was so successful that USA govt shut them down by charging them with treason because they had some russian technicians on the platform. A very successful idea but to avoid the problems you need to keep it out of places like the USA and possibly ESA controlled areas
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